tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7876933803200242837.post2211476111722829576..comments2024-01-31T20:16:44.727-06:00Comments on Baxter's Ongoing Thoughts: Good FridayC. Baxter Kruger, Ph.D.http://www.blogger.com/profile/18109712975412765686noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7876933803200242837.post-28082553090354429872009-04-23T17:24:00.000-05:002009-04-23T17:24:00.000-05:00Mirit said, "it does not exist apart from Him, HE ...Mirit said, "it does not exist apart from Him, HE set it up in the first place :-) Is there a righteousness apart from what HE set up? If so, what is it? Does He simply ignore HIs ideas/law?"<br /><br />I think that the righteousness that exists apart from the law is the Trinity itself, and the relationship it is in itself. The law could be a small peek into the fullness of that relationship, but it is not what that relationship is based on. You can't base the eternal God on a created Law. If anything, its the other way around.<br /><br />Does God submit himself to the Law? I don't think that's even a relevant question. If God established a law then there was a time before its establishment that God existed. I do think that he established it based on the fruit that would come out of it if followed to the T. And from it we get glimpses of what righteousness is.<br /><br />Without the law Israel probably would have destroyed itself. That could be the main reason why it was established... because he loves his children so much that he made the law to protect them.<br /><br />So, where I'm at right now is, Righteousness is the Trinity and the righteousness of the law seems like only a shadow of what Jesus came to fulfill. To take it at that seems like something less than what Jesus came to do.<br /><br />Hope something coherent came through there. Thanks.Brett https://www.blogger.com/profile/10632343649661747519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7876933803200242837.post-73913124237012591942009-04-17T16:54:00.000-05:002009-04-17T16:54:00.000-05:00Hi there!
To me, the law is part of a choice we m...Hi there!<br /><br />To me, the law is part of a choice we must make. This choice is between being righteous and having God’s approval through law or being righteous and having God’s approval through Jesus Christ in us, the hope of glory.<br /><br />The former (law) is holy, righteous, and good. But it can’t bring righteousness, and it can’t win God’s approval in the practical sense because we can’t do law. Furthermore, there can’t possibly be enough laws to deal with all of life’s vagaries. So, all law does for us is bring us into condemnation and thus place us under God’s wrath.<br /><br />The latter choice (Jesus Christ) easily gains us righteousness (His righteousness) and thus wins God’s approval even in our less than perfect human state. Furthermore, Jesus knows how to walk through this messy life in all of its vagaries. So, Jesus gets the job done for us 100%--past, present, and future.<br /><br />But we struggle to make the latter choice as it seems preposterous to our natural minds. Yet this is the choice such folks as Paul and John exhort us to make.<br /><br />The best to you always!<br /><br />J. Richard ParkerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7876933803200242837.post-9821680372130752622009-04-17T14:51:00.000-05:002009-04-17T14:51:00.000-05:00Following on from Mirit, Amy and Richard:
For me,...Following on from Mirit, Amy and Richard:<br /><br />For me,the Law is a guide to show me how hopeless I am - especially when I find I can't keep it. It directs me to that person who fulfills it by changing my heart, so that I no longer even get angry - let alone murder. I no longer even covet my mates wife - let alone perform the act. <br /><br />How does he do that?<br /><br />The law still stands but it is much much smaller - almost insignificant now. <br /><br />He also afflicts my heart (presumably to get my attention) and he whispers other laws, commandments, precepts, judgements, statutes in my ear. They are like wings to a bird. They destroy the works of the devil in my heart.<br /><br />How does he do that?<br /><br />Regards,<br />RegAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7876933803200242837.post-40282554743919706632009-04-16T14:08:00.000-05:002009-04-16T14:08:00.000-05:00You can go to the FAQ section of the perichoresis ...You can go to the FAQ section of the perichoresis website, www.perichoresis.org and hear the answers to this question and others. Also, check out jesus and the undoing of Adam and some of the essays.<br />Go back and read through Baxter's previous blogs as well to help with this great question. Thanks, PerichoresisC. Baxter Kruger, Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18109712975412765686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7876933803200242837.post-62613376185829701092009-04-16T12:50:00.000-05:002009-04-16T12:50:00.000-05:00I just came across this blog and read through it a...I just came across this blog and read through it and was wondering how, according to Baxter's theology, is it that a person gets to heaven? I've been told that I was a sinner from birth and that I needed to ask God to forgive my sin and repent of my sin. From what I understand, unless I sincerely do this that I will go to Hell. Does Baxter teach that there is a hell and if so who goes there?<br />robAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7876933803200242837.post-37438511449375718912009-04-14T12:14:00.000-05:002009-04-14T12:14:00.000-05:00Sir Baxter and Lady Mirit,
You both seem so non c...Sir Baxter and Lady Mirit,<br /><br />You both seem so non combative in your views. That is refreshing. Might I hear both of your thoughts on why the veil in the temple was torn from top to bottom on that fateful day in light of both of your views on why Jesus died? I've been trying to reconcile the truths surrounding the mercy seat behind the veil and the rending of it the day Jesus died with both of your clearly differing theologies. Look forward to hearing BOTH of you. <br /><br />Thanks a Bunch.<br />BobbitBobbithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05446851423482414496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7876933803200242837.post-51803809626817466722009-04-12T20:52:00.000-05:002009-04-12T20:52:00.000-05:00thanks Amy and Richard! thoughts! yay! .. So then...thanks Amy and Richard! thoughts! yay! .. So then, why would a reasonable creator make a LAW and then decide just to chuck it? it means nothing? I would think not. He's intelligent after all. Another way to look at it is that God set forth a way of life for all of His creation. and then.. We blew it big time. Yet, because of His amazing love (which we don't even come close to), He wants to save us the consequences of His own law (which HE thinks is valuable, or why would He set it up in the first place?) There is not a wrathful God looking for punishment, but rather a grieving Father/Godhead trying to find a way to fulfill His law (which is valuable to Him) WHILE trying to save the ones He loves.. (doesn't real life show us this in numerous examples?) So, this amazing God decides that HE will take our place.. HE will satisfy His law and the consequences, even though WE are the guilty ones. and so He takes the punishment that WE deserve. It's not some mystical.. the law becomes a godhead.. it does not exist apart from Him, HE set it up in the first place :-) Is there a righteousness apart from what HE set up? If so, what is it? Does He simply ignore HIs ideas/law? I think that a lot of this conversation is reacting to the church.. a hypocritical bunch of folks who laid some heavy stuff on some of you. Yet, let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. God is Good! He is intelligent! He created the universe and He established what is true and morally good! WE screwed it up through our own selfishness, and through His amazing goodness (selah), He made a moral choice to find a way to pardon us. And His pardon was His death. What an amazing God, Father, elder brother. I'm lost for words..Miritnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7876933803200242837.post-50523686847843277272009-04-12T09:45:00.000-05:002009-04-12T09:45:00.000-05:00Hi there,I would like to throw in my two cents on ...Hi there,<BR/><BR/>I would like to throw in my two cents on the issue brought up here. My feeling is that popular Christian thought likes to make God small. One way it does so is to manufacture the idea of “God’s great moral law” or “universal law.” This in turn makes God accountable to law, which makes law bigger than God and also subject to its wrath. So, we must have justice--even for God.<BR/><BR/>But this is not the reality of God. God created law and is not bound by it. Jesus’ exchange with the law types as recorded in Matthew 12:1-8 shows this. Curiously, this passage even shows that in some cases humans are not bound to law.<BR/><BR/>However, modern Christianity loves its law. So it quite easily misses seeing a righteousness that comes into play apart from law.<BR/><BR/>The best to you all always!<BR/><BR/>J. Richard ParkerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7876933803200242837.post-86275791194112455362009-04-11T21:16:00.000-05:002009-04-11T21:16:00.000-05:00Hi Mirit,I was wondering, then, if universal law i...Hi Mirit,<BR/>I was wondering, then, if universal law is the new god-head? Is it a power that exists unto itself out of the Trinity's being?<BR/><BR/>I was taught something similar, and I don't know if this is true for you, but on further research, I found that those speaking these things to me were actually speaking about one and the same Being: they saw a passive God/Father, and Universal Justice was actually HIS sly backhand.<BR/><BR/>Essentially, in my experience, it all came back to the one duelistic model of "God is For me - God is NOT For me".<BR/><BR/>Maybe this is a relevant thought, maybe not....????<BR/><BR/>AmyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7876933803200242837.post-78614091743979292182009-04-11T14:41:00.000-05:002009-04-11T14:41:00.000-05:00I understand your reasoning that God is not filled...I understand your reasoning that God is not filled with wrath against the human race. It seems like you are reacting to this only. Of course this is not the case. Hasn't the church gotten past this thinking? This is not what the cross was. Jesus died to satisfy universal justice.. He who sins will die.. Rather than all of us dying and being eternally separate from the father because of our sin, Jesus died for all - the innocent for the guilty. Saying that He died simply because of our own condemnation of Him leaves out the importance of His dying in our stead.. not because a wrathful God demanded it but because God submitted to His own law. And He looked for a way to pardon us.Miritnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7876933803200242837.post-59566036527793240412009-04-11T06:28:00.000-05:002009-04-11T06:28:00.000-05:00This is such a different way of my usual thinking ...This is such a different way of my usual thinking I want to read it again and again because God is much more amazing when this truth is spoken. RonRonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14721574377963678880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7876933803200242837.post-24574981262815090582009-04-10T21:11:00.000-05:002009-04-10T21:11:00.000-05:00Thanks Baxter,This is precious information. And w...Thanks Baxter,<BR/><BR/>This is precious information. And without this understanding, the traditions surrounding Christ’s death just reinforce the idea of a wrathful God who is ticked off at His Son, and us by extension. Been there; seen it; done it; have the t-shirt; know the song! <BR/><BR/>Anyway, the best to you always!<BR/><BR/>RichardAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com